Introduction

John Tyreman 0:19

Welcome business developers to another episode of Breaking Biz Dev. Actually, this is a special edition of Breaking Biz Dev.

Mark Wainwright 0:27

Ooh, special. I like it.

John Tyreman 0:29

Yeah, we are going to go behind the scenes it's been a year since we launched and I know it's crazy. I think we've got over like 30 plus episodes published over the first year. And, um, you know, I thought it would be worth going behind the scenes, sharing with our listeners, some of the, like the ins and outs, uh, you know, how this show came to be, uh, thank a bunch of our kind of like super listeners. And then explore some potential possibilities for what could come in the next year.

Mark Wainwright 1:00

Yeah. I think that that sounds like a, a, a great agenda for the conversation, John. I think, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, you never know how these things kind of evolve people. I think people are always kind of curious about how things get started. And I mean, I'm as I'm, I'm curious about how all these other, podcasts get started, in a recent episode, we have, we've mentioned, other podcasts and how long they've, they've run. And, this would be fun to kind of pull back the curtain a little bit and, um, talk about, talk about how it all started, how it's going and what's next.

John Tyreman 1:32

but first, if you're listening to this, make sure that you subscribe on Apple podcasts. Make sure you subscribe on Spotify. Follow we at, we have a YouTube page. Go check that out.

Mark Wainwright 1:41

Yeah. YouTube, we're, we're, we're everywhere. We're everywhere.

John Tyreman 1:45

well, it didn't start off that way.

Mark Wainwright 1:46

It's true.

John Tyreman 1:47

just kind of grew and evolved into that and we'll, and we'll get to that.

Mark Wainwright 1:49

Yeah,

Origin story

Mark Wainwright 1:50

good.

John Tyreman 1:50

let's start here, Mark. Let's start with kind of like the origin story. Why did we launch this podcast? How did this show come to be?

Mark Wainwright 1:58

my backstory extends just a little bit further back from the, the moment that you and I connected when I first started this practice pre sort of, 2020 That's this big milestone everybody has in their head. It's like 2020 was the pandemic and covid and all that stuff. So some years before that. Yeah. Uh, I was bold enough to, to set out on my own, uh, and wasn't exactly clear about, you know, where that path was going to lead me. But soon into that, I, uncovered and started building this fractional sales management practice, and I had been doing that for some years. And started uncovering these experts on, uh, Apple podcasts or wherever else. And one of the first ones that I came across were, uh, Jeff McKay and Jason Malicki on rattle and pedal, right? And they had been at it for a little, uh, some years or, uh, Whatever the timing was and great content. Uh, so I started listening, I listened to that podcast and others, and then I was so bold as to send them each a note and say, Hey, I think I've got something fun to talk about, let's talk about it. So in early 2020, and the reason I bring this one up was because it was literally recorded, I believe, and I had this stuck in my head, March 8th, 2020. So we recorded it right then. And, you know, We had a fantastic conversation. We talked about, um, pipeline sales, pipeline backlog, and what, what I like, what, what actually Jason Maliki called the pipeline cliff, which all of us kind of thinking has, Oh yeah, I see the visual. Right. Right. My future work is headed off the cliff. Right. Um, little did we know a week later, the entire world would shut down and that pipeline cliff would be. A very real thing for a, for a lot of people now, obviously, uh, things were a little different. My work benefited coming out of the, the pandemic as others, others did. Uh, but that was the 1st, that was my very 1st guest podcast appearance. And after that, over in the, in the following years, I probably appeared on about a dozen. Podcast as a guest people were kind enough, and gracious enough to kind of invite me to be a guest. We talked about various topics and that sort of sparked the interest in the fire in me that grew over time. And I thought, wow, wouldn't it be cool if I could create my own podcast, but I'll tell you what, John, I had absolutely no idea how to get started.

John Tyreman 4:40

Mark, have you, have you considered creating a Spotify playlist of all your guest appearances?

Mark Wainwright 4:46

Yeah, the,

John Tyreman 4:47

do that

Mark Wainwright 4:48

I've got the, I've, I've got them kind of set aside. There's this, you know, you can kind of save them in sort of your, your podcast, tools, whatever, whatever interface you use, you can kind of set them aside. So I do, I have a number of them saved and, there's a lot of people out there who. You know, they'll just say, I cannot stand to listen to myself, talk on a podcast or something. I actually don't, don't mind it because I can listen to what was said and edit and improve, uh, and maybe reframe sometimes some of the things that, that are discussed, but yeah, I don't, I don't have any problem and occasionally I will go back to that library and not just listen to it, but I'll also use it. You know, very similar to. You know, what I do with this podcast, I will use those guest appearances in very specific situations, uh, with clients that I work with and say, Hey, look, if, if you want to learn more about this particular topic, uh, I've podcast. It's either ours or, you know, a guest podcast that I appeared on go listen to it. You know, if that's your preferred way of kind of ingesting information, then have a listen. So John, what's your, what's your backstory? What, what led up to the. What led up to the, to the moment that we connected and yours is. You have a richer history than I do in regards to podcasting.

John Tyreman 6:10

regards to podcasting. Sure. Um, I'm, I'm still a little green around the gills when it comes to, you know, being a solo business owner. Um, I launched my solo business, red Cedar marketing in October of 22. And I lucked into a client. And so that was great. And then, um, a few months later, I think it was March of 23. I posted on LinkedIn, like, hi, let me reintroduce myself. You know, I'm on this journey, you know, I was laid off and now I'm a solo fractional marketing consultant and the post just blew up, right. It got like 60, 000 impressions, you know, there's hundreds of comments. And I was just like, Whoa, that's really cool. I got a couple of clients out of it, which was, which was great. Um, But I think that might have been the post that caught your eye, Mark, because soon thereafter, you sent me a connection request and said, Hey, John, we're on similar paths. Let's connect. Um, and then a few months go by and I realized that, you know, I really need to focus my. Positioning, you know, a fractional marketing consultant, that's just so like broad. And so I knew that I needed to really niche down. And so I focused, started focusing on podcast marketing for experts and professional services firms. And, you know, once I started narrowing that position and started really talking about podcasts, that's when I think you and I had kind of like a back and forth on LinkedIn, like, Hey, you know, like let's, well, what would happen if we started a podcast together or something like that?

Mark Wainwright 7:38

Yeah. You, you posted something and I called your bluff on it. You'd said some question like, yeah, wouldn't it be cool to start a podcast? And I said, I'm in, let's go. And I think both of us probably, you know, sort of like, you know, figuratively looked at each other and was like, are you serious? So I think it was one of those.

John Tyreman 7:56

Yeah, and then we had a conversation and and then I think it just kind of naturally fit. I think we've got some good chemistry. You know, you're you're on. You've been on many podcasts as a guest. I've hosted a few podcasts in the past. And I think it really made sense. And part of why it made sense for me was, you know, if I'm going to be Thank you helping experts and firms launch podcasts and use that as part of their marketing strategy that I really need to walk the walk. I can't just talk the talk. And so that's a part, you know, part of what I wanted to do is, uh, is do that. And, you know, we both serve professional services firms with different service offerings. So it made sense.

Mark Wainwright 8:38

You mentioned it there, John, just a little bit ago that, you have hosted podcasts in the past and I don't want to gloss over that, you have hosted at least two, maybe three podcasts over the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, right?

John Tyreman 8:57

Uh, the first one was in 19 and that was the visible expert and I co hosted that with Kelly waffle. That was my first foray into podcasting. And then I hosted the digital marketing troop, um, from 21 to 22. And I interviewed, it was more of a technical side of marketing. So I interviewed like SEO, technical experts and paid media experts, analytics experts. Um, And then we launched this show and I also host another show called podcasting and professional services, where I interview business podcasters like Jason and Jeff and Blair and, David C Baker from two Bob's. And, uh, and that's been, that's been great. And it's been really helping me kind of understand the world of podcasting and, you know, how different. Podcasters approach their shows and how there's really no rules in podcasting. And that's, it's, we're still in the early end of things. And I just think it's great to, you know, get on the board with you and kind of ride this wave.

Mark Wainwright 9:56

Yeah, it's, it's been fantastic. And your experience and expertise with all of this, has, as you know, made, you know, breaking BizDev and, and my work a thousand times easier. Like I said, um, I would never have, jumped into the deep end and tried to start my own podcast without someone who knew their way around. And, You, yeah, we just got connected and it, it happened, so it's great and it's been a fantastic year.

John Tyreman 10:22

Agreed. Agreed. And I would highly recommend if anyone's listening to this, if they're thinking about launching a show. Doing it with a co host is so much fun. So if you're ever thinking about that, having someone to kind of go through the, that journey with is really fun. Um, excellent. So that's how we got started,

Listener shout outs

John Tyreman 10:40

Mark. What I'd love to do is in part of like reflecting on this past year, first and foremost, I just want to give a few shout outs and thank yous. To some of what I, what's kind of shaping up to be our Mount Rushmore of listeners.

Mark Wainwright 10:58

And I'm sure some of these folks who are probably listening to this, uh, we'll chuckle a little bit, but you know, it's a little bit goes a long way when you are starting something new and building an audience and sort of establishing your sort of recognized authority out there in the marketplace and, um, Everybody who listens, who subscribes is part of this. But yeah, there's a handful of people who have offered reviews who have been, uh, regular supporters, uh, typically on LinkedIn, but maybe other channels as well. But yeah, there's just a, there's a, there's a good group of folks that I'm happy to call and you are likely happy to call, um, not just professional connections, but good friends.

John Tyreman 11:42

Yeah, absolutely. And let's, let's, you know, give them some shout outs. So, you know, there's some folks who have left a review for the show and that just means so much when I, when I, when I go and I see an unsolicited review for Breaking Biz Dev, um, it just warms my heart and just makes my day. So, um, Bryce Merriman, Hannes Molenski, Tyler Wiggins. Uh, thank you all so much for leaving those, those reviews and, and for listening to the show.

Mark Wainwright 12:11

Yeah. And everybody out there is thinking, boy, if I had just left a review on breaking BizStev, then I would have gotten a shout out as well. And I'm thinking, go ahead,

John Tyreman 12:21

do it.

Mark Wainwright 12:22

Yeah, do it. Yeah. Fun.

John Tyreman 12:24

Um, and like you mentioned earlier, Mark, I mean, you know, there's, there's other ways to, that folks have been supporting the show and engaging with us. And we created a LinkedIn company showcase page, uh, where we publish like these short little clips from the show. And, folks like that. They like those little videos. They're able to hear kind of a little snippet. And if an episode piques their interest, you know, then they can click through and listen to the whole thing.

Mark Wainwright 12:50

Right.

John Tyreman 12:51

But there's a handful of folks that, you know, I see pop up regularly on that LinkedIn page, Patrick Johnston, Zach Bowden, Lucas Gray, Kevin Thompson, Ben Klein, Rachelle Ray. Uh, these, these folks have just been engaged over the past year. And I just want to say, thank you so much for everything that you've done to help, help with the show.

Mark Wainwright 13:13

Absolutely. And one of the common threads, and this isn't universal, but one of the common threads with a lot of these people is that they are solopreneurs or they have their own firms or they have a small firm, uh, and they realize the importance of You know, supporting others, creating a, a strong network, and just these little moves of, of support and attention that people pay to us and to our podcasts are so valuable. So absolutely that crowd and more many. Thanks.

Top 3 episodes

Mark Wainwright 13:48

You're listening to breaking biz dev

John Tyreman 13:50

the podcast that beats up, breaks down, and redefines business development for the professional services firms of tomorrow. Your hosts are John Tyerman, founder of Red Cedar Marketing, the podcast marketing company for experts and professional services firms,

Mark Wainwright 14:04

And Mark Wainwright, principal consultant and founder of Wainwright Insight, the fractional sales manager and sales consultant to professional services firms.

John Tyreman 14:14

If you find this podcast helpful, please help us by following the show and leaving a review on Apple podcasts

Mark Wainwright 14:20

and now back to the show.

John Tyreman 14:24

what I'd like to do next, Mark, is I'd like to just kind of, you know, Touch on some of our more popular episodes and maybe we can opine as to why they were popular, um, and why folks really gravitated towards those. And so, you know, I've got three episodes. We'll start with number three and we'll work our way up to number one. So we'll start with number three and this was what's broken in business development today. And if folks that are listening and have listened to this, to this show, you'll know that you'll probably recall that that episode featured, I think four or five different guest clips where we kind of weaved them into the episode.

Mark Wainwright 15:07

that was a good one. That was our first foray into bringing, other voices into breaking biz dev. you and I are both solicited regularly and in increasing fashion, for guest appearances and we didn't want to say no to that. So we wanted to take a slightly different tack on how we bring other voices, uh, to this podcast. And I think this episode was successful. It was the first time we had done it. We brought, like you said, a handful of, individuals and experts into the podcast. And we posed the question, from your perspective, what's broken in business development. And that gave us a wide spectrum of responses that we had on the podcast. And, you know, John, you know, all the details of this, anytime we can bring other people, other personalities, other thought leaders, you know, Into our podcast. It grows the audience, right? Because their, their, their followers, their connections are maybe exposed to breaking business for the first time. So I think that's probably one of the big reasons why this was so successful.

John Tyreman 16:12

I agree. Totally agree. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. All right. So let's go to the second most popular episode in the last year. And this was Prospecting for Doer Sellers, Targets, Tools, and Techniques.

Mark Wainwright 16:26

This was surprising, that this is a second rank. And, and I think it's, here's what I'm picturing. I'm, I'm picturing that, that someone came across, you know, someone who's a doer seller in an engineering firm or consulting firm or architect or whatever else, and they, they slipped their little Apple, earbuds in and went for a walk and. Played this and they didn't let anyone else know they were listening because you can't use the word prospecting in most professional services firms. That's only for like sleazy full time salespeople, right? That's, that's spamming, you know, people through email and through social media and stuff. But it's really important to understand what prospecting is and how proactive outreach can really help you create the firm that you really want to be. Uh, and hopefully it was useful, you know, and, and it was, it was designed to be kind of a practical step by step approach to, you know, how do I do outreach in an organized fashion? You know, who are my targets? What different tools or channels should I be using? And. How do I bring that all together into a process that is effective, easy for me and, uh, hopefully get some good results,

John Tyreman 17:47

think it's indicative of, where folks are this year in terms of, Hey, we need to try new things to, to win new business. You know, the old plays aren't working. And so, being more proactive, I think that would, that just the notion of that is appealing to many doer sellers. And I think that's part of why this episode was, you know, Successful is because we positioned it for those doer sellers and we, we tailored it and we made it actionable tool, you know, targets, tools, and techniques, you know, we laid it out for him. all right. The most popular episode in the last year. This is number one on the list and number one in our hearts. Checking in, ghosting, and the magic email.

Mark Wainwright 18:38

This makes me chuckle because this is, it's, you know, it's part of it. Yeah. There's a little soap, right? There's a little, there's a little click bait in this one, which was so funny. Um, yeah, this is, this is good, but I think just, you know, if we scratch below the surface on this, this is a common. Issue and it's, you know, what happens when my communication with a prospective client just vaporizes like what, what do I do, you know, and it's, and I have clients, I'm probably going to talk to one or two later on today. That are suffering from this today, right? So it's, it's a, common challenge throughout the, throughout the industry. And, it's, it's worth a listen. I want people to go back and kind of listen to it. The magic email is, is I didn't create it. Someone, it's one of those things that attribution has been lost because it's been used by so many different people in so many different ways. Uh, I think I first came across the Concept of it on the two Bob's podcast, you know, Blair pulled it from somebody else who pulled it from somebody else, whatever else. But you know, the magic, magic email is just a really powerful, simple tool that you can use to, I would say the most effective, most effective part of the magic email is to separate yourself emotionally from new business. Right from opportunities that have stalled that are not moving where, you're just saying, look, if we're done, we're done and I'm ready to walk away. and we invoke that wonderful sort of cognitive bias called loss aversion and people say, wait, wait, wait, we're not done yet. So, um, that's a fun one. Go listen to it. I'm happy that people listen to it and, and, and appreciate it. It is an ongoing issue. And even though I call it the magic email, it's really not a silver bullet. It's not the S the single answer to it. The single answer to all of this checking in, ghosting, and the magic email stuff happens way further upstream, right? It happens from your very first conversation to establish a really good mutually respectful relationship. Respectful relationship with your prospects, that says we need to communicate. We need to do so in a, a human, rational, reasonable fashion. We need to respect each other. and, if anybody's ghosting anybody else, then it's clearly a sign that this isn't going to work. So,

John Tyreman 21:04

So if you're suffering from feeling ghosted, go check out, checking in, ghosting in the magic

Mark Wainwright 21:10

Yeah.

John Tyreman 21:11

All right. Um, so those were our three most popular episodes, um, of the last year. And it'll be interesting if we do the same exercise a year from now, what, you know, what episodes will, will pop then. Um,

Experiment recap

John Tyreman 21:24

what I'd like to do is just a recap on some of the experiments that we ran. And I'd love to get your hot takes. Um, so I'm going to, I'm going to run through, I've got four listed here and. Let's, let's do this. Let's, why don't you rank them in terms of the most successful in terms of experiments.

Mark Wainwright 21:44

No. Uh, Hmm.

John Tyreman 21:47

So let's, uh, here, I'll run through them and then you can rank them. Does that sound good?

Mark Wainwright 21:51

Yeah, sure. Yeah,

John Tyreman 21:55

one, setting up a YouTube channel experiment. Number two. Getting merch for the show. We've got hats, we've got, uh, we've got gym bags. We've got shirts, you know, I, I might just even put links to the merchant, to the description here. Um, another experiment was using guest clips in an episode. Uh, that was that what's broken in business development today. And then the fourth experiment that we ran was, you know, we're all constantly experimenting with different episode formats. And typologies we like to say.

Mark Wainwright 22:32

Right.

John Tyreman 22:33

So how would you rank those four in terms of their, uh, the most impact?

Mark Wainwright 22:37

obviously because it ranked, uh, pretty high and we brought in other voices. I think the guest clips were, um, really, I think, I think that, that sort of typology for an episode is really successful. It is something that we will continue, uh, to, to, to focus on. Uh, it's, it's nice to have. Have somebody else in your ear other than just John and I, uh, and, you know, the, the additional perspectives are really, really useful. So maybe that's, maybe that's at the top. I would say right next to that and the metrics that, that we have discussed around this podcast, um, will prove out that the YouTube Channel is effective and this completely flies in the face of, you know, on day one when you said, oh yeah, we're going to be recording video for this podcast. I thought, oh boy, here we go, right? We want video as well as the audio. I was hoping that we would just be able to, you know, have ourselves sequestered in our dark little rooms and, you know, be, be speaking into microphones, but no, we've got video and lo and behold, the video. Has given us so many different assets to use the short little clips, uh, the long form video, uh, just of a variety of stuff. Plus it's a whole new channel, right? And, and you've, you've shown me that having those audio only clips on YouTube aren't super effective. People really want something to watch. Uh, and, uh, so yeah, I would put that. I would put that second, uh, the different episode formats is, is great. And it's nice that we've been able to define different typologies and kind of mix them up where we, you know, highlight a problem or we beat something up or we have an episode, I think we call it sort of yin yang where we will come at a topic in a very sort of balanced way. So we're kind of both sort of, you know, bringing our perspectives to it. And it's kind of a 50, 50 back and forth, uh, episode format. And then we have interviews where a lot of times it's, it's me interviewing you or more often you interviewing me, however, that played out. Uh, and then I would say on the, on the list of four things, number 10 would be the merch, John.

John Tyreman 25:03

maybe that'll creep its way up the list. The more years we do this show,

Mark Wainwright 25:06

It'll move up, but yeah, I, I, I have to, I have to say when I got that package from you a couple of months ago with the black t shirt with our breaking biz dev logo across the front of it, I was shocked. I was excited. I loved it. I've actually worn it. I don't know if I've actually worn it kind of boldly out in the public yet, but I'm certain I will. Uh, you said you got a t shirt and then immediately after you got it, you went and played a gig somewhere. Cause you're a musician as well.

John Tyreman 25:35

I ripped the sleeves off of it and I'm a drummer and, you know, breaking biz dev, it kind of fit with like the rip sleeve type thing. I also have a trucker hat with the breaking biz dev.

Mark Wainwright 25:46

Yeah. Yeah. That's good. I think the, the, the, the merches, the merches fun. And I'll tell you from that whole thing, my takeaway from the merchant and the logo and the branding and everything else is that I'm kind of proud and excited of, of, of the brand that has been created. That is breaking biz dev. It seems to resonate with folks. Uh, it's, uh, it makes sense, you know, and, and I think brands are, are, are. Most effective when it all just makes sense. People can kind of listen to the, to the content and see the brand and kind of understand it. And it looks like a really well done sort of comprehensive. Well, well thought through. Package. So, and that's, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to give you full attribution on all of that, that you've just had this foresight to think this could, you know, we need to start, we need to start right. And we need to build this thing. Uh, and, uh, yeah, way to go. Congratulations on, on all of that. Your, your, your vision for this brand has grown far beyond what I thought it would.

John Tyreman 26:54

shouts to my friend, Brian Lemon, who helped us out with the logo design, he did a, Smash up job and pun intended because,

Mark Wainwright 27:02

And we went through a couple of versions and I said, no, John, we actually have to break it. Like there needs to be something that's broken and you're like, Oh, I think I get it now. Okay.

John Tyreman 27:10

I think, I think it looks great. Um, so let's, uh, let's, uh, our,

Future possibilities

John Tyreman 27:15

our, for our final kind of segment on this episode, Mark, what I'd love to do is just kind of like explore the possibilities. Like what's possible in the next year. Like, what are some of the ideas that we've had that, you know, maybe, or maybe not that we will work into the show and what can our listeners

Mark Wainwright 27:33

this is funny. I recall this conversation where, where you came in and said, Oh yeah, we can do these 10 other things this coming year. And I said, um, maybe, maybe, maybe one. We'll see. Uh, I was the voice of reason in that conversation, but, uh, yeah, some of the, some of the things you've mentioned are, um, you know, an email. Community or a slack community, you know, just, just building an audience, around. Breaking biz dev and leveraging a different communication channel, slack as, as people may know, creates this sort of, you know, synchronous slash asynchronous place where people can go and share thoughts. And, you know, you can kind of do that through an email newsletter as well. It's a little more one directional. but, uh, yeah, the concept of creating a community around breaking biz dev is, is interesting and, you know, right. Yeah. Asterisk on all this, John, is that there's no guarantees we'll, we'll spin any of these up in the coming year, right? Not make any promises, but it sounds interesting. And, you know, heck if anybody out there in the audience is like, Oh my gosh, that is something I've been really looking for. Let us know. Sure.

John Tyreman 28:46

Totally. Another idea that we had was we talked about the merch. Um, I don't think we need to talk about that

Mark Wainwright 28:52

Yeah.

John Tyreman 28:53

Um, but, uh, no, I think we have breaking biz dev. com. Uh, we have a very simple website there, but I think one of the things in the next year is what I would love to do is kind of create a website that's a little bit more robust than just a media player. You know, maybe there's different ways that we can engage with folks. Um, a merch store being one, but perhaps, you know, maybe we can organize certain episodes into, you know, like a, like a series series or, you know, written content or even creating a custom GPT that folks can query and ask breaking BizDev, right. And what would John and Mark recommend about this? Um, so those are, those are some ideas.

Mark Wainwright 29:42

Yeah. That, that URL, it's like, like you said, it's simple. Now it could, it could be, it could be something, it could be something more. Um, you mentioned live podcast episodes, which sounds daunting.

John Tyreman 29:55

Yeah, you know, it's funny. I was just, um, just the other day I was going back and forth on LinkedIn with Rachelle Ray, who we mentioned earlier. She's a listener. Um, she runs a podcast called burnout banter and she was talking about, she was asking, you know, my perspective on, you know, some of the technical aspects of running a live podcast episode at a conference. Um, And so I thought that was really interesting. You know, we could potentially meet up in person and do a live podcast conversation recording. We could do a live stream podcast episode virtually. So that would be kind of like another way to do that. And I think that would be fun. If anything, you know, chalk that up as an experiment, you know, an opportunity to learn and test things out.

Mark Wainwright 30:43

Right. I don't, you know, there are some podcasts out there that are very heavily produced and very heavily edited. Ours is less. So I would say, you know, not to. There's not that there's a bunch of stuff in our podcast that couldn't be edited out just to be clear, you know, like we could definitely, you know, you, you could take a sharper knife to, to everything, but in general, I would say it's not heavily edited. And I think what most people think of when they think of a live podcast is, just the, the, the gaffs and the mess ups and the flubs or, you know, whatever else, but I think that's part of what makes a live podcast. A live episode, engaging is that, you know, we've got people here that are just running, running live and, and they just press play and, you know, we're, we're, we're going to go. Um, I think one of the things that gets in the way with live podcast episodes is just simply the technology is that the, the, the hiccups are, um. Frequent. I would say a lot of times when I've, when I've engaged with some live events, the technology gets in the way. Um, we use Riverside to record this. So we are engaging, you know, synchronously live, but at the exact same time, we have both video content and audio content that is being recorded locally uploaded separately. So, you know, the, the, you know, The artifacts that are collected in this platform are, you know, pretty much error free, which is, which is great.

John Tyreman 32:08

Yeah, I think another benefit of the live podcast episode is just the fact that we could have, you know, folks ask us questions. And I think that's like, I think that's kind of the biggest benefit in my mind is being able to engage with folks in real time. Um, and so hopefully, you know, as the, as the show has grown over the past year, I think we're nearing the point where, you know, doing one of those live episodes might make sense. And so. I'm excited at the prospect of that. and a couple of other possibilities in the coming year, you know, sponsorships are always a possibility if the right one were to come along and they're aligned with our audience. If they're, you know, either a service provider or maybe a technology platform that fits. Kind of our target audience and adds value to our audience. I think that's kind of the big thing. Um, but you know, maybe not, maybe we decide that it's not worth it. We don't want to sponsor.

Mark Wainwright 33:04

Well, that's, that's, you know, in my book, that's one of those things that is, uh, falls into the category of never say never,

John Tyreman 33:11

Right. Yeah, exactly.

Mark Wainwright 33:13

you know, rewind a long time ago, that was not where we wanted to, to go. And, and, you know, a few of the podcasts that we consistently and regularly, regularly point to have either very little or no. No sort of interruptions or, or, you know, sponsor mentions or any of that stuff. Um, and I, and I appreciate that, but at the same time you can see how, um, you know, you can come into a mutually beneficial, uh, situation with a, with a sponsor helps you helps them. Uh, so, I mean, because there's very real costs involved in, in, you know, producing. You know, a podcast, this is not, this is not, it's not a freebie, right? There's, there's, there's layers of costs involved in all of this, both for you and I, so, um, it's not, it's not cheap. And, you know, from my perspective, I think we've had this conversation that, you know, if we brought in a sponsor, we would be simply looking to offset the, the modest costs that are involved in, in bringing, breaking BizDev to everybody out there.

John Tyreman 34:18

Exactly. Exactly. So that, that, I think that's, that's the list of the, you know, we had a longer list and we narrowed it down to here's, okay, here's some, some viable paths that we can both see. if folks, if you're listening to this, and if you have any feedback or ideas, Or if some of the, you know, is something really resonated with you, reach out to Mark or I on LinkedIn. then we'd love to, to hear your perspective. Thank you for listening, first of all. And, um, yeah, we, we'd love to hear your ideas.

Mark Wainwright 34:52

Absolutely. And, uh, on this last little bit here, John, I think it's important just to say to you, thank you, uh, for, uh, walking this path with me and, you know, just having enough gumption at the very beginning of this to think, Oh yeah, we can make this, we can make this into something. And, and I think it's become something cool. So many thanks for that.

John Tyreman 35:16

Yeah. Well, and thank you, Mark, for walking this journey with me too, because I think this was a, like, like you said, it wouldn't without the two of us breaking BizDev wouldn't happen. And so I'm, I'm really happy for what we've created and I'm really proud of it too,

Mark Wainwright 35:30

Good, good. Well, until next time.

John Tyreman 35:33

until next time.